@andros I give you not creating another file, but then I'd vote for commenting out DMs. See https://eapl.me/timeline/post/z5e2bna

It's easier to find the DM in comments from your side, than asking all the client maintainers to add the regex =P You can even use a Modified comment, such as #! <DM content> Or something like that

This approach is retro-compatible with current and older clients.

just a note that we are doing that on PHP: https://github.com/eapl-gemugami/twtxt-php/blob/master/docs/03-hash-extension.md#php-72

That PHP snippet could be merged into https://twtxt.dev/exts/twt-hash.html

it should be `# 2025-04-13T11:02:12+02:00

my main itch with the DMs extensions is that these messages are intended to be private, not public information. That's why other extensions make sense, but DMs are another kind of feature. TwiXter, Mastodon, FB and some other services usually hide the DMs in another section, so they are not mixed with the public timeline.

I find the DM topic interesting, I even made an indie experiment for a centralized messaging system here https://github.com/eapl-gemugami/owl. Although, as I've said a few times here, I'm not particularly interested in supporting it on microblogging, as I don't use it that much. In the rare case I've used them, I don't have to manage public and private keys, and finally none of my acquaintances use encrypted email. Nothing personal against anyone, and although I like to debate and even fight, it's not the case here. This proposal is the only one allowing DMs on twtxt, and if the community wants it, I'll support it, with my personal input, of course.

A good approach I could find with a good compromise between compatibility with current clients and keeping these messages private is 'hiding' the DMs in comments. For example: `# 2025-04-13T11:02:12+02:00

I think that having a dm-only.txt, twtxt-dm.txt or any other name for an alternative file is the most sensible approach. The name could be specified in the metadata.

not a big deal as I can skip those messages, but again, it's an extension, so older clients shouldn't be affected by a new feature.

I'm also thinking that some kind of tag might be needed to automatically hide twts from unknown extensions. For example our client doesn't support DMs and always shows the !<nick url><encrypted_message> syntax which is meaningless.

well, I suggested that in https://eapl.me/timeline/conv/k2ob6bq

The idea was to help those following the spec in https://twtxt.dev/exts/directmessage.Html, to replicate the steps and validate whether your implementation gives the same result.

BTW, you could add a link to the spec in the echo web.

you got me 😜, it was like a few Internet centuries ago

the Fireworks and Confetti animations are amazing. It reminds me a lot of my first code on QBasic a few years ago.

yep, it looks nice! How could add my URL? Is it following the same endpoints than https://registry.twtxt.org/swagger-ui/#/users/addUser ?

BTW, I think that the usage section has a wrong base URL or something.

For example if you enter here: https://watcher.sour.is/conv/4rx5iyq It says to look for this URL: https://watcher.sour.is/conv/4rx5iyq/api/plain/users

Which seems to return the content from https://watcher.sour.is

In Mexico you couldn't register the word Sonora (state), nor Taqueria (kind of restaurant) as there are two common words, but perhaps the combination of both is trademarkable, I'm not sure, so many 'taquerias' here don't file a trademark request. It's usually "Taquería [LAST_NAME]" or "Taquería [PLACE]".

At the same time, the word "taqueria" was trademarked in UK, like it would be "Paris" or "Pub" I guess, so basically Sonora Taqueria didn't reply to the cease and desist, based on:

[Lizbeth García]: A brand may not use a word that is generic or descriptive of the products or services it is putting into circulation on the market.

Since he (Ismael, Taqueria's representative) didn’t get any response, he decided to leave it in the hands of his law firm.

In early 2023, after all the noise on the internet and the mobilization caused by this case, an agreement was finally reached with Taquería to settle the matter peaceably.

In March 2023, Michelle and Sam decided to register the Sonora Taquería brand and logo with the UK Intellectual Property Office.

https://github.com/sorenpeter/timeline

well, there is a whole book about piracy, DRM and selling stuff on the internet. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Doesn%27t_Want_to_Be_Free

So I won't add much to the topic, what I can say is that this is about being pragmatic. There is some people who's gonna spend their money on books but it requires publicity (polemic topic) and subsidizing creativity with our own money (another controversial one).

Otherwise it's a difficult discipline /profession /industry

yay! A new client 😀

definitely 1e100 superiorer

Now I'm looking forward to see the next version using MessagePack

that's certainty an interesting idea.

Building on top of that, I'm thinking of https://eapl.me/yatwt.yaml

well, that leads to a long conversation.

Piracy is a difficult topic which is very personal, so I won't say much about it.

On writing books, I've tried along with other digital products such as courses and videogames, and I got to confess that it has been hard for me.

If it helps, I think it all reaches our expectations on the activity and the result. If royalties is the expectation, it's going to be slow. By 5% of royalties, for a rough example, a huge amount of sales will be required to get a decent "wage", so I've understood of doing it by the side of a normal employment although it has been discouraging and a bit sad.

I have reflected about it in Spanish here: https://sembrandojuegos.substack.com/p/sobre-expectativas-al-crear-juegos

nice!

thanks for sharing @xuu!

Checking for example https://watcher.sour.is/api/plain/twt or https://registry.twtxt.org/api/plain/tweets, I don't know whether this syntax is being used by clients or by people. Is it integrated on Yarn in any way? Genuinely asking to know more about it.

If I might throw a quick thought to those working on the registries, it would be nice to have an endpoint with a valid twtxt output (perhaps cached or dumped to a static file) which a client could point to, helping to discover it's content in a way which is compatible with the twtxt spec.

Taking the first twt I found in https://watcher.sour.is/api/plain/twt as an example: `reddit_world_news

sorry @prologic, timeline doesn't autocomplete the mentions yet, and it was 'difficult' to look for your URL from the phone.

somehow I forgot that existed.

Perhaps it was its mention of being a demo implementation here: https://twtxt.readthedocs.io/en/latest/user/registry.html#registry So I though it wasn't really active.

Anyway, I think that's a good idea.

Is there something similar available on Yarn? Sorry for for asking if that was mentioned recently.

I think that the clients may help you to submit your URL to these directories, and also to get a view of the twts in them.

thanks @prologic! @bender the idea of the RFC was to reach an agreement on a difficult problem, receiving proposals, and the voting is a simple count to gauge the sentiment of "is this a problem worth to be fixed?, are we committed to implement a change in our clients?"

But that's a fair point. What do the community expect? What do y'all expect?

thanks? 😆

Now I need the non-hacker friends 🥲

it seems I don't know how to do Markdown 😅

Twtxt was made for nerds, by nerds. I'd like to change that. It's by nerds/hackers, for nerds/hackers and friends of these. It doesn't have to be hacky all the time, as you don't need to be a nerd to have a blog. But, for that to happen, someone has to build the tools to improve UX.

by design there really is no way to easily discovers others Yeah, I agree, and although there are directories of email addresses, usually you don't want that, unless you are a 'public figure'. I couldn't say that a microblogging is a "social network" by default, as a blog is not either. At the same time, people would expect to find new people and conversations, as you'd do in a forum.

I think of two features on top of the current spec:

• Clients showing a few posts of what your following are watching but you don't, so perhaps you find something interesting to follow next. Or that feature of "Your 'followings' are following these accounts/people". (Hard to explain in english, but I hope you get the idea)
• Sharing your .txt into some directory, saying "Hey, I have this twtxt URL, I want to be discovered". I'm thinking of something like the Federated tab on Mastodon.

thanks andros!

instead of adding the new twt at the end of the feed, do it at the beginning The PHP client did that originally, although I didn't see a real benefit if you use... a client. It could help if you read the .txt file through a browser or something. Also, not many clients are prepared to cut the request, and you can't rely on the file being organized that way, so finally we dropped that feature.

2 is a great idea, you should suggest it in that blog post.

About 1, well, I think anyone has an email address and only about 5% use a Feed, so it makes sense to offer what most people use 🤔

yeah, that's the tricky part of adding features

"it is very easy to filter or ignore it" This is the interesting part for legacy clients, hehe

Joking aside, let's see how it works in the wild!

I have finished 1-9 on Python. If anyone is interested, I could share the code, or in Reddit many people have shared theirs.

👀

Is it working now? I'd say again that perhaps the DMs could be stored in another .txt, but anyway I'd like to try it.

I don't have the need for a physical Calc nor a watch, although I'm slightly more interested in a https://banglejs.com or an eink watch 🤔

yeah, it worked, thanks! :)

well, I assume by syntax you mean Gemtext (which I like a lot, my personal blog is built on top of it), so I think it might work for twtxt clients...

I knew of twtxt in Gemini Antenna, so at least the 2017 spec might work on that protocol. I think the main issue with extensions is that they weren't designed with many URLs and protocols in mind.

Also I have to admit that the Gemini community significantly reduced in the last few years. I don't know how worth it is to add support for Gemini now.

also I've made a draft of a voting page to receive preferences on each proposal https://eapl.me/rfc0001/

Help me to play with it a bit and report any vulnerability or bug. Also any idea is welcome.

I have applied your comments, and I tried to add you as an editor but couldn't find your email address. Please request editing access if you wish.

Also, could you elaborate on how you envision migrating with a script? You mean that the client of the file owner could massively update URLs in old twts ?

Timeline and twtxt-php, don't support Gemini, only HTTP/S, as a design choice (although originally it was intended to work on Gemtext, it was a niche inside a niche, so it was discarded very soon).

At the moment of building the engine there weren't many Gemini URLs supporting twtxt 1.1 (with twtxt.dev extensions). Also User-Agent won't work there, and many Gemini URLs are a mirror of the HTTP one, so I think is not strictly necessary.

my 2c

well... it has been an opportunity to build an artisanal microblogging client on top of a minimalist protocol. I agree on the hacker toy part.

And of course it's about being part of a niche community which is (mostly) amazing, and nurturing. As there is almost no one writing in my native spanish, it has been an interesting challenge to share my thoughts in english, as well.

I couldn't say it's a 'social network' per se, I think it lack many engagement things usually associated with social networks, although it has a social part of igniting discussions, learnings and behavioral changes, which is the meaning of social for me.

it seems like yarn still points my nick to both my older URL (404 now) along with the current one.

it seems to be "an informational website consisting of discrete, often informal diary-style text entries (posts)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blog and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blog#History

I'd like to know more about what andros and prologic are talking about, I feel lost.

"This will be managed by Registries." Are we talking about these registries? https://twtxt.readthedocs.io/en/latest/user/registry.html

ah! those german calendars. Somehow I was thinking of something like mine, with spaces to write inside each day.

I worked for a german company and they gave away these calendars to our clients and team every year, but the model you can hang on the wall. Memory unlocked!

do you mind sharing a picture ?

I can't find something similar here, but my wife gave this one last year, and I've been using it a bit. I'd say it's useful as you've shared.

We also have a shared calendar in the kitchen for family events, and it's working great.

well (insert stubborn emoji here) 😛, word blog comes from weblog, and microblogging could derivate from 'smaller weblog'. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/articles/Microblogging

I'd differentiate it from sharing status updates as it was done with 'finger' or even a BBS. For example, being able to reply; create new threads and sharing them on a URL is something we could expect from 'Twitter', the most popular microbloging model (citation needed)

I like to discuss it, since conversations usually are improved if we sync on what we understand for the same words.

pls elaborate on a 'p2p database', 'all story' and 'Registries'.

My first thought takes me to something like secure-scuttlebutt which it's painful to sync data using clients, and too slow compared to downloading a text file.

Also I'd like for twtxt to avoid becoming an ActivityPub. Works well but it's uses too many resources IMO. https://kingant.net/2025/02/mastodon-the-cost-of-running-my-own-server/

I'm defending being able to self-host your Web client (like you'd do with a Wordpress, twtxt is a micrologging, at the end), instead of federated instances, so in a first thought I'd say Registries have many disadvantages being the first one that someone has to maintain them active.

🐿️ squirrels!

I'd need to think about it deeply, but at a first sight, nanoblogging would be a simple text (like the original twtxt spec, aimed for TUIs), and microblogging (like Twitter was a few years ago), would be about sharing texts, images, videos, GIFs, links, and perhaps Markdown styling.

Why? You have shorter messages than in a blog, but you may add almost anything you could do in a blog. Buuut... who knows?

@prologic oops, I'm sorry to see disagreement leading to draining emotions.

It remind me a bit of the Conclave movie where every part wanted to defend their vision and there is only a winner. If one wins the other loses. Like the political side of many leaders and volunteers representing a broad community. I don't think that's the case here. Most of us (in not all) should 'win'.

I can only add that isn't nice to listen that 'my idea and effort' is not what the rest of the people expect. I personally have a kind of issue with public rejection, but I also like to argue, discuss and even fight a bit. "A gem cannot be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials," they say. This exercise and belonging to this community also brings me good feelings of smart people trying to solve a human and technical problem, which is insanely difficult to get 'right'.

I genuinely hope we can understand each other, and even with our different and respectful thoughts on the same thing, we might reach an agreement on what's the best for most people.

Good vibes to everyone!

[lang=es] definitivamente es una buena llamada de atención para promover más donaciones a proyectos opensource. La verdad apoyo menos proyectos de los que 'debería', por el valor que me ofrecen.

Una opinión pragmática es que hay la libertad de no pagar, pero también esto nos debería llevar a que tenemos la libertad de SÍ reconocer los proyectos que nos dan valor, por medio de un donativo puntual o constante. Adaptarnos al contexto de lo que estamos ofreciendo.

Mi chava trabaja en Asociaciones Civiles (tipo OSALs/ONGs) y es un reto pedir donativos, por lo que es común pedir 'Cuotas de recuperación' pues ayudan a valorar más el servicio, y a que fluya el donativo. Creo que se puede hacer algo así en el código libre, apelando a diferentes motivadores en los usuarios.